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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.03 09:29:00 -
[1]
I had my fifth (5) alt skilled up for PI 2 days ago. So i have 5 chars with 5 planets each and i am running 5h cycle on 20 of them.
It is on average 17 extractors on each planet (2-3p rocessors, 1 launchpad), exept for the 2 manufacture-planets i have (1 for P1 -> P2 and one for P2 -> P4).
At the start of all this madness i set out to test...test..PI 
Sudddenly i find myself crying in a corner after spend nearly 1billion isk (counting buyorders not filled) and clicky-finger on strike!
Well... the money does not bother me, it is more where it came from. But the clicking and the INSANELY BRIGHT LIGHT from gasplanets that has caused me to have headaces EVERY NIGHT!!!
I like PI a lot (what it can become, not as is) but the clicking and all the other anoying gameruining stuff needs some serious tweaking.
To sum up:
25 planets
17 extraactors on each (425 pcs)
4 clicks each extractor
3-4 times a day.
= 6800 clicks each day (On reseting the extractors alone).
Yes.. it is my own choice, but i wish CCP could make a litle more userfriendly 
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:38:00 -
[2]
well.. yeah, i did bring myself into this mess by using 5 chars 
But i liked PI and wanted to see if it was worth digging in deep. My issue is concerning the level of complexity and unnecessary clicking involved.
If one had the option to reset ones extractors with a simple click would not make me engage 10 more chars into it, but i would enjoy it more (a lot more).
Also... if the intention for CCP was to make this for use with only 1 char, then there would be a serious shortage of certain items (after the removal of NPC-goods).
I know CCP stated PI would not be a major income, but why make it almost impossible to make some profit without killing the players fingers and mouses?
Also i wonder about the idea to launch PI as a newbiefriendly system when any newb getting into it soon will get out of it due to the immense clicking? Dont get me wrong, i dont say PI is boring or ridiculous.. it is just to troublesome!
And by all means (i cant speak for anyone but myself) as a first-timer in EVE.. will you play with dots and pins on eye-killing backgrounds? Or would you fly around in a beautiful spaceship looking at planets, gates, fights etc.. in a beautiful environment?
In my head you are not mentally sane if paying 15$ a month for a internet spaceshipgame (developed true 7 years for spaceships only) and play with PI is what you do.
I do not say that i should only be spending 1 sec with PI a day and make gazillions, but there has to be a middle-road here somewhere.. 
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.05 07:17:00 -
[3]
I would recomend all PI-users to invest in a mouse that can be programmed to "dobbel-click" when only clicking one time.
I have a Logitech G5 and it doubleclicks when i turn the mousewheel to the left or right. So that is a 50% reduction in clicking right there.
Still... to much clicking.
And there REALY should be an option to upgrade CC, and also a 12h cycle.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 10:57:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: GondriA
relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:17:00 -
[5]
This is a game, fun has nothing to do with it  
As i said in the second post, i am fully aware i did bring this upon myself.
However i do not see why PI should be limited down by making it unnecessary difficult to maintain in a larger scale.
Yes it should be hard to make a lot of money doing PI (as hard as any other "career" in EVE), but making us click our brains out is in my humble opinion the wrong way to restrain the outcome.
It is also strange to me how CCP can present it as a passive income when so many capsulers are in dire need of the products (eg. POS Fuel).
So in a way many are actually being forced into PI due to the need of resources.
It might be just me, but PI is as i see it not at all what CCP said it would be (newbiefriendly, passive and totally optional to all).
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 19:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Why SHOULDN'T it be harder to maintain in scale? The vast majority of things in the game are. Running five ships in different complexes at the same time is harder. Mining with five ships at the same time is harder. Maintaining 5 POSs is harder. Trying to run trade routes with 5 characters is harder. There's a solid case that features which aren't harder (such as research point collection) are an aberration which need to be fixed.
You missunderstood me (or i am terrible to explain).
I did mean it is a lot more tidious work to maintain the same level of income in PI than in other areas like missions, trading or mining. (yes i know it is by design, i just dont agree that it should be like that.
Of course is should be harder to maintain with 5 chars than with one.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Let's consider your three points on what PI should be.
Newbie-friendly: How can you even suggest that it's not? You can be fully involved in PI with only a few days skill training and less investment than most cruisers. It's probably the newbie-ist friendly feature in EVE.
It is not newbiefriendly due to the reason i dont believe any newcomer to EVE is gonna go for PI due to the clickfest. Newcomers wanna learn EVE and fly spaceships (i believe).
And the point are not mine on how it should be, it is CCP's. My point are more or less the opposite.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Passive: This is entirely your choice. Long cycle times don't produce as much, but they are certainly passive. IMHO they nailed it - you can choose your level of involvement based on desired profit.
I agree fully that is is indeed working as intended. Im just not agreeing with it. I believe PI should be able to yield better profit if one is interested in using many hours on it.
I dont see why it should be any less rewarding than other "careers" (based on time/effort used).
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Totally optional: Suggesting it's not option is pretty much nuts. Sorry. So long as there are sources for the materials you need, you can buy them without setting up your own colonies. By the standard you seem to be applying, mining is non-optional for everyone in the game, because everyone needs minerals.
I was trying to say that it is not optional since the products are needed by so many. Have you not read all the threads from capsuleers shutting down towers due to far to expencive POS-fuel?
Yes they can easily create own fuel.. but a lot of them dont want to use PI.
Though it is optional (as everything else is) there is a need for someone to do it.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Is it a perfect system? No, I don't think so. Not by a long shot. But there's a very fine line to walk in creating a system to allow hands-off production. It may not be the new selling point of EVE, but it's a pretty acceptable system for what it is. It only becomes unacceptable when you move outside the intended constraints.
And that's part of the problem. People are completely wound up over how the constraints were implemented, rather than addressing the constraints themselves. If you want to have a debate over whether you should be able to have 25 colonies all producing ISK for you for weeks while you don't even log in, then fine - have that debate. But arguing that all the clicks are bad because they mean you can't run 25 colonies is missing the point.
I never said one should be able to not log in for a week and have 25 colonies making gazillions.. I said it should be as rewarding as the other careers in time/effort spendt.
eg.
I am not complaining because i cant be bothered doing some hard work on PI, i am complaining mostly about all the clicking needed. I have no good solution to this, but i do reserve my right to discuss the matter.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 21:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Terbulus
I make the equivalent of 600 million ISK per hour. I dont see the need to spend time doing anything boring in EvE to get ISK. Try getting a RL job.
Omg you are totally right.. Everyone that cant make 600 million isk per hour should definitely quit EVE since that is obviously the goal here.
How come i didnt think of that first.. 
You sir are a genius... a beautiful mind
If you actually bothered to read more than only the last post you might have seen i have stated mining is boring and that i dont do it.
PI on the other hand, i find quite fun to fiddle with (+ missions, exploration, trading).
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